407 coupe AVMAR disable ?

Charl2

Membre régulier
18 Octobre 2018
26
0
1
South Africa
Good day

Please can anyone of your french experts give some help ?

I am getting new rear KYB shocks for my 2006 407 2.7 hdi because i cannot afford new Peugeot shocks in south africa.
The KYB shocks are not electric shocks.

How can i disable the AVMAR suspension or is there a way to fool it into thinking it is still connected ?

Will the car make a noise if i disconnect the suspension plug ?

Kind Regards

Charl
 
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:coucou:
Welcome Charl.

A South African posting on a french cars forum, that's pretty rare ! :D

Frenchs are very good in only one language : French ! :spamafote:

I will translate and reformulate your message as soon as possible. That way, everyone will be able to answer your question.

If I can give you an advice, you should try to use Google Translate before posting new mesages ;)

See U
 

Salut à tous.

L'un de vous peut-il aider Charl :confused:

Il est sud-africain et possède une 407 V6 2.7 HDi, équipée d'amortisseurs pilotés.

Il doit changer ses amortisseurs AR. Il a choisi des KYB car il ne peut pas se fournir en amortisseurs d'origine PSA.

Il nous demande quelle est la démarche à suivre pour le système piloté, car les KYB n'ont pas les micromoteurs qu'on trouve sur les PSA...

Comment peut-il faire pour désactiver l'amortissement piloté et éviter d'avoir des alertes au tableau de bord ?

Ou alors connaissez-vous des amortisseurs OEM compatibles avec ceux pilotés de PSA ?

Merci pour lui, je traduirai vos réponses si vous ne vous sentez pas de le faire en anglais ;)

Charl, could you give us your VIN (Vehicule Identification Number) and the reference of the shocks you bought ?
 

Je vais répondre en français peu gagner du temps, s'il y a un moyen de désactiver l'AMVAR, ce sera sur le diag. Maintenant, Charl devrait regarder s'il peut adapter les micromoteurs du système AMVAR sur ses nouveaux amortisseurs.
 

Merci Matthieu pour ta réponse.

J'ai lu quelques topics qui traitent du sujet, notamment celui-ci : https://www.forum-peugeot.com/Forum/threads/amortisseurs-pilotés-407-sw-3-0-v6.81498/

Il est toujours question de 2 options :
- soit remplacer les amortisseurs par ceux d'origine PSA (donc hyper cher) ;
- soit désactiver l'amortissement piloté (nécessite la valise) et remplacer les amortisseurs par des plus classiques.

Rien lu sur la possibilité de récupérer les éléments électroniques des anciens amortisseurs PSA pour les adapter sur ceux "classiques" d'une autre marque :(

Ce qui m'étonne, c'est que depuis que PSA a arrete de concevoir et produire ses propres amortisseurs, c'est à KYB qu'ils sous-traitent cette tâche. Mais on ne trouve finalement rien dans le catalogue KYB pour les amortisseurs pilotés du système AMVAR o_O

Je vais répondre à Charl qu'il va falloir qu'il se trouve une valise Diagbox :D
 

Charl, it seems that you don't have many choices to succeed in your mounting...

If you really cannot find the originals Peugeot shocks, you must desactivate the controlled dumping system (AMVAR) in order to install "classics" KAYABA shocks.:spamafote:

So you need to find someone or a Peugeot local garage in S-A who will be equiped with the "Peugeot Diagbox", wich is the " magic informatic tool" able to inhibit the AMVAR.

That way, you could install the KYB shocks and won't have any alert message flashing and beeping on the dashboard !

If you want to go further and have much more advices, I encourage you to post on the UK Peugeot Forum : https://www.peugeotforums.com/#/forums/41

I'm pretty sur you will find a lot of capables guys who will be much more qualifieds than us in giving you advices in Shakespeare's tongue :whistle: ;)
 
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Thank You Jpop81

i understamd your translation perfect :)

The vin nr is: VF363JUH2J21517870
KYB part number is : 341826

I did try google translate in my previous posts here, but you people said that you could not understand the google translation to french

Thank you
 

Hi
it is necessary to telecode the bsi and to control the ecu and abs computer codings with either pp2000 or lexia (windows xp only) or else diagbox (windows 7 8 10)
 

In addition to Yann's answer, you must be carefull with the springs and the cups : you can't use those wich are already implemented on your rear suspension... :(

Springs and cups are differents between "classic" suspension and the AMVAR suspension. Unfortunately, I can't give you the parts numbers for those two pieces : I don't know why, but Peugeot Service Box doesn't recognize your VIN :voyons:
 

Thank You Both....

ohhh...... So you are 100% sure the cups is not going to work ? I just want to change the shock, can i not just take the cup from the old shock and put it onto the new shock ? i don't want to change springs or anything else, i just want to change the shock i can't spend much money, this car is expensive on parts in south africa.
 
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A Forum Peugeot member as already done the same job you expect to do ("Sceint", on this topic : https://www.forum-peugeot.com/Forum/threads/suspensions-pilotées-amvar-un-jour-amvar-toujours.80032/).

According to what he says, you can't re-use your currents cups and springs o_O

Here is a copy/past/translate of his message :

"Hello,
I just changed the piloted rear shocks on my 407.
If you want to mount non-piloted shocks, it will be necessary to buy old non-piloted dampers to serve you springs and cups.
Indeed, the springs of the AMVAR are non removable, crimped in factory, the engines of piloting being also integrated.
This explains the difference in price between front and rear : the front being without spring and without driving motor, we recover the old on the original shocks absorbers.
We can therefore switch to conventional dampers, provided to endure the message to the dashboard
."

I'm sorry, but it seems you're stuck :sweat:
 

I found the parts numbers for the cups and springs of 407 Coupé 2.0 HDi 163hp (with conventionnal suspensions) :

- upper nuts : 4503 43 (number 71 on the diagram below)
- upper cups : 5165 33 (number 14 on the diagram below)
- springs : 5102 CP (Standard) or 5102 N9 (Pack) (number 12 on the diagram below)
- shock absorbers protection : 5254 57 (number 13 on the diagram below)

amort_407_1.jpg

- "shock absorbers eyes" : 5220 74 (number 2 on the diagram below)
- left arm joint protection : 5218 06 (number 5 on the diagram below)
- right arm joint protection : 5218 07 (number 5 on the diagram below)

amort_407_2.jpg
 
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Hi Jpop, so there is not a way to take apart or dissemble the shock at all ?

But you say: "we recover the old on the original shocks absorbers.
We can therefore switch to conventional dampers, provided to endure the message to the dashboard
."

Is there then a way to dismantle /disassemble /take apart the rear shock ?

I just returned from the garage, they say they are going to see if they can dissemble it, but if you say it is impossible, then are they going to waste their time trying to take the shock apart ?

Is there no schematic / technical drawing of the rear shock on how to take it apart ? (mine is the 2.7HDI coupe)
 

Hi Jpop, so there is not a way to take apart or dissemble the shock at all ?

Well, Sceint says it :spamafote:

I'm just a user as you are, not a Peugeot mechanic o_O

A friend of mine has bought recently exactly the same car as yours and we had the same discusion that we currently have about the shocks. So I'm trying to give you a hand ;)

But you say: "we recover the old on the original shocks absorbers.
We can therefore switch to conventional dampers, provided to endure the message to the dashboard
."

This is only applicable to the front springs, wich aren't crimped whith the shocks, as rear springs are :non:

Is there then a way to dismantle /disassemble /take apart the rear shock ?

According to all the french topics I read, this answer is "No", sorry :spamafote:

I just returned from the garage, they say they are going to see if they can dissemble it, but if you say it is impossible, then are they going to waste their time trying to take the shock apart ?

Maybe they could do miracles but once again, this controlled dumping system, specially the rear suspension, wasn't designed for that. The mane risk is for you and your passengers : "Safety first" would say Flash McQueen :whistle:

Is there no schematic / technical drawing of the rear shock on how to take it apart ? (mine is the 2.7HDI coupe)

You mean you're looking for the drawings about how to remove the rear shocks from fhe body :confused: Or do you ask if there's a drawing that explains how to take appart the rings from the shocks :confused:

For the first point, the drawing does exist, but I can't download it 'cause it's not free... Your garage Peugeot has got the access to Peugeot Service Box software, full version and authorizarions, but not me.

For the second point, there's no drawing 'cause this manipulation is not planned / allowed...

Moreover, the 407 Coupé 2.7 HDi has only been equiped with the AMVAR suspension system. That's why, in order to give you compatible part numbers, I had to look at the 407 Coupé 2.0 HDi (4 cylinders, 163 hp) :chinois:
 
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Thank you Jpop you have given me very informative information

You see the problem i have is, new AMVAR shocks costs almost half of what i have paid for this car, (I had to fix a lot of things including fixing and spending a lot on the engine) the engine is fine now.

It's almost opening time for the garage, i am going to take the car to the garage now and hope they can perform a miracle to try and dismantle the shock, i wil post and update to let you know, hopefully all this can help your friend also.

Do you think it might be possible to use the stationwagon complete shock on this car ?
Yes i know it will feel different but might it fit ?
 

Just as you had to, there's a lot of french owners who had to work on their V6 : timing belt, turbos, EGR valve, water pump, oil pump, etc. o_O

This engine claims maintenance and a well-stocked wallet :sweat:

In France, front shocks are sold 200€ each, rear shocks 350€ each (low prices). How much is it in S-A :confused:

I don't know if you can use the stationwagon shocks. I need to have a look at Peugeot Service Box but I can't do it until this evening :spamafote:
 

Thank you sir
i just came back from the workshop, they are busy checking to see if they can dismantle the shock.

Yes i replaced cambelt/pulleys/ tappet cover gasket, cam seals,dipstick seals.
The Peugeot dealer here ask me R8000 (ZAR)(Rands) per shock, i paid R40 000 for the car.

8k per shock for a 2006 vehicle with 173k kliometers is a lot, but even if it is not for some people for me it is just too expensive to afford.

KYB shock costs R 1389

Please if you could check tonight if SW and Sedan shocks will fit, i will very much appreciate it.
I remembered something, there was a topic where people said they sent in their amvar shocks to be reconditioned, i can't get the forum topic now it was on another website, they did get it reconditioned but the shock leaked so it was not successful But that means the shock can be dismantled yes ?

i just need the top cup and the spring.
 

First of all, I urge you to create an account on Peugeot Service Box : http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com/pages/index.jsp :chinois:

In the bottom right corner, you can chose your language (English - South Africa). You will have to find a "cover", 'cause you can't register as "normal person", you must be a society (chose any little garage in your country).

That way, you will be able to look at a lot of drawings and, if you pay (the price is very low for 1 hour access), you could download all the tutorials you need ! ;)

The prices you give don't shock me : it's a normal price for this kind of shock, even in France :spamafote:

I read somewhere that reconditioning the controlled shocks is very difficult and expensive : it doesn't seem to be a good solution...

For the 407 Sedan 2.7 HDi, the part numbers for the rear shocks are :

- 5207 C8 (AMVAR) ;
- 5206 AY or 5206 FG (normal shocks) ;
- 5206 ER or 5206 FL (reinforced shocks).

For the 407 SW 2.7 HDi, the part numbers for the rear shocks are :

- 5207 C9 (AMVAR) ;
- 5206 AY or 5206 FA (normal shocks) ;
- 5206 ET or 5206 FH (reinforced shocks).

Unfortunately, none of these part numbers match with the Coupé :( :

- 5207 C1, 5207 C3 or 5207 C7 (AMVAR) ;
- 5206 EX or 5206 FK (normal shocks).

I can not tell you what are the differences between the dampers of the different versions : the size ? the compression force ? the parts that compose them ? No idea...o_O

For the top cups, the part number is the same for all 3 vehicules (equiped with the 2.0 HDi 163 hp) : 5165 33.

Springs are different : 5102 K6 for the Sedan, 5102 K4 and 5102 K5 for the SW, 5102 CP (Standard) or 5102 N9 (Pack) for the Coupé :spamafote:

There's one thing I really don't understand : for the 2.7 V6 HDi, why Peugeot gives part numbers for "normal shocks" but nothing for the rings and top cups ???

As I already told you, all the V6 versions have been sold with the AMVAR, so why does Peugeot sells "normal shocks" without specific cups and springs ?!?! Weird ! :voyons:
 
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Thank you Jpop i am going to take some time to go through what you have just posted, but i have already gotten a donor shock so hope it works !
 

Ok i went to boksburg just to find out the guy at the scrapyard did not check his stock ! He only had one, so then i had to go with plan B which is the scrapyard in Pretoria i first went to mentioned earlier in the post.

I barely made it before closing and the deal was done quick 5 minutes into the ride home i realized something was odd with these shocks, i knew something did not seat quite right with me but i could'nt pinpoint it, then it struck me, the shocks he gave me is a bit different from the shocks he has shown me the first time, it has these silver cups which looks to be slightly larger than my original shock's cup, though the spring width look the same from both shocks.

I wonder which shocks these are.

Anyway i have no idea what he did, but it left me to the conclusion that it might fit or might not because of the slightly larger diameter cup. attached a picture of my old shock vs the one from the scrapyard the garage is going to try and use, mix and match the parts so we can hopefully get a working shock using the old springs.
The workshop managed to get the cup to turn on the original shock but it does not want to screw out, they said a very last resort, they might be able to grind the cup open to loosen it inside, however we will first see if these scrapyard cups will work.

The one shock has quite a bit of rust but it seems to not have lost integrity it just looks to be surface rust. and i don't have a choice now, i've driven out a lot of fuel the past 6 days.

Is there anything i can use to convert the rust into well.. not rusting ? some sort of a vehicle part grade anti rust i can spray on ?
 

Pièces jointes

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"There's one thing I really don't understand : for the 2.7 V6 HDi, why Peugeot gives part numbers for "normal shocks" but nothing for the rings and top cups ???

As I already told you, all the V6 versions have been sold with the AMVAR, so why does Peugeot sells "normal shocks" without specific cups and springs ?!?! Weird ! [block]:voyons:"

Exactly so it must be able to work somehow, that is what we are trying to do now as per my above post just now. Again thank you for that information !
 

:coucou:

What an adventure ! :D

For the cups, as I told you, they are different between AMVAR rear shocks and normal rear shocks. So, it doesn't surprise me that they are larger than the originals. Maybe, it means that you need the specific springs (see the number parts already given above ;) )...

I don't quit understand which way you are moving on ?

Finally, you bought used shocks :

  1. You will recover the "shock absorbers eyes" (I don't know the English name of this part, look at the drawing in one of the posts above, and that's the part you show in 3 of your 4 fotos) ;
  2. You will remove the rust of this part (wire brush + WD40 + anti-rust product like Rustol-Owatrol) ;
  3. You will mount the "shock absorbers eyes" on your new shocks ;
  4. You will buy new springs that are adapted to the "new" cups ;
  5. You will replace AMVAR suspension with "normal" suspension ;
  6. You will have the AMVAR system disabled by the garage ( "it is necessary to telecode the bsi and to control the ecu and abs computer codings with either pp2000 or lexia (windows xp only) or else diagbox (windows 7 8 10)" as Yann wrote).
Is it correct :confused:

For information, in France, the cups are sold around 10 € each : https://www.oscaro.com/kit-de-butee-de-suspension-sasic-2650039-5191866-1180-p
 
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Here is a tutorial from KYB, showing how to replace rear shocks on a 407 !


It might help... ;)
 

Hi Jpop, it's been a long day and a long worry, but the problem is SOLVED !
Please can you send me the 91 tutorials which are specific to the Coupé 407 2.7 HDi !
(email adress removed thank you sir)

We used 407 SW shock cups and the coupe spring with the KYB shock, the car had a rattle before the replacement and i thought it might be bushings and linkages, but it was not, i think it was the old shock hitting the stop that made the noise as it is now completely gone, car drives perfect ! !

Thank You Sir for your help !
 
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Hi Charl,

Glad for you to see that you managed to fix it and that everything is back to normal. :bien:

I'm surprised that the AMVAR rear springs can be re-used with the new cups :voyons: How have you done to dismantle the spring from the shock ???

Has your garage done everything necessary for the electronic part :confused:

Do not hesitate to put pictures of your montage on the forum, I'm sure it could help other members. ;)

I sent you an email, you should remove your address from the topic. :chinois:
 

Hi Jpop thank you.

Yes i'm very glad the AMVAR springs fit ! !
I think the garage used the 407 station wagon cups i gave them, the technical person was not there when i came to collect the car, i will see if i can confirm but i almost 100% think they used the 407 station wagon Cups because they had to cut the AMVAR shaft in half to get the spring out.

They could not open it normally, there is also actually a wire going through the shaft to the bottom of the AMVAR shock.

Then they put the the AMVAR spring on to the KYB shock (KYB has bottom retainer "Cup" already in place and then i think they installed the station wagon top cups on the KYB shocks.

I am going to get new rear tyres on Saturday because the old tyres were worn due to the old shocks being worn out and broken, when the car is put on the lift i will take pictures and post them here.

I still need to get info on what they did to the electronics.

I can tell you that when i start the vehicle the shock warning light comes up for about 10 seconds.
But after 10 seconds it is quiet. No Noise, No flashes, the dash is 100% normal, and throughout my drive home the shocks never gave problems and no sound or any light flashed, all is normal, except when starting the shock light it shows for 10 seconds